Discussions between Guru Fatah Singh & Guru Sant Singh over Wikipedia article about Yogi Bhajan

Concerning Dr. Trilochan Singh and Yogi Bhajan

To: Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa; you have obviously never talked to traditional Punjabi Sikhs about Dr. Trilochan Singh. Dr Trilochan Singh is a very well respected writer of Sikh history and religion. Search google and you'll find his writings at many traditional Sikh websites and read his entire book "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" at Gurmukhyoga.com. My Punjabi Gursikh wife has high regard for Dr. Trilochan Singh. She is from the same home town in Ludhiana Punjab as he is. She read Dr. Trilochan Singh's biography of Bai Sahib Randheer Singh when she was a child and it inspired her greatly. I think you need to do more research on the values and practices of Yogi Harbhajan if you’re writing his biography. To begin with YB's surname is Puri and my wife instantly said when I told her this, "oh he is a mona Punjabi" these families are more Hindu than Sikh. If you google Puri you'll find that the Puri families are staunch Hindus. I think you'll find YB was really more of a Hindu than a Sikh. If you also search on Gurmukhyoga.com you'll find a post with pictures of Hindu gods in and around 3-HO Gurdwaras and prominently displayed at Siri Singh Sahib's (Yogi Bhajan's) estate. I spent two years in India recently and no one I met in Amritsar or the Punjab respected Yogi Harbhajan as a Sikh or even as a Yogi for that matter. Gurcharan Singh Tohra, ex president of the SGPC who you say supported YB, was nothing more than a crooked politician. I met the man in 1983 and he could hardly speak a word of English. I think any support he gave YB was because he saw all these white people supposedly converting to Sikhi but he didn't have the capacity or desire to understand what was really going on with all the sacrilegious tantric and hindu practices of Yogi Harbhajan. Gurcharan Singh Tohra was also completely disgraced during the blue star operation when he came out of the Darbar Sahib with his hands held up and surrendered to Indira Ghandi’s hooligans who attacked the Golden Temple. I am putting back sections about Dr. Trilochan Singh as it adds some balance and truth to this article on Yogi Bhajan.Guru Sant Singh (talk) 14:43, 21 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.182.82 (talk)

Dear Guru Sant Singh -

I know plenty about Trilochan Singh. I read his slander about Yogi Bhajan years ago. I also noticed that the man was so riled about Yogi Bhajan's work that he ended up re-writing his biography of Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh to edit out any reference to yoga. This is not scholarly conduct. This is polemics. I will take my Sikh studies from Yogi Bhajan and Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas over your wife's and Tirlochan Singh's slanderous opinions any day.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk • contribs) 00:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

To: Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa

If Dr. Trilochan Singh has no credibility, in your opinion, then why is he referred to several times as a Sikh historian and scholar in articles on SikhiWiki which is of course a 3HO website and one you have yourself promoted? Why have you never posted Dr. Trilochan Singh's opposing views in this article about Yogi Bhajan when it is clear that Dr. Trilochan Singh is a respected scholar of Sikh history? I was around Yogi Bhajan for 30 years. I lived 100 yards from his residence in New Mexico and worked with Yogi Bhajan on many business deals and served as a sevadar at Guru Ram Das Ashram from 1981 to 1990 where I was in close contact with YB and witnessed his corrupt activities and sacriligious tantric practices. YB in fact sold me one of his houses in 1992 and I lived there for 17 years. I discovered “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga” during my two years in India. Why was “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga” hid from us by Yogi Bhajan? Dr. Trilochan Singh's book has been a real eye-opener for me to say the least and makes complete sense when I think about the last thirty years of my life with Yogi Bhajan. I suggest you read it again carefully and I think you will see that all the problems happening right now in 3HO are a direct result of Yogi Bhajan's corrupt Tantric yoga practices. [2]Link to entire book.

Signed Guru Sant Singh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.182.82 (talk) 06:49, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Dear Guru Sant Singh Khalsa -

I am not going to go where you are are going. TS's diatribe about Yogiji is one of the bitterest pieces of pulp I ever had the opportunity to read. Moreover I have to say Sikh historiography and scholarship has done little to ease the plight of the common Sikh or anybody at all for that matter, and I don't honestly care much for it.

Yogi Bhajan stood in a different class from these people and my impression is that TS was bitterly envious. He and his cohorts tried very hard to make inroads, to poach on Yogi Bhajan's students, to create doubts in their minds in the late 70s and early 80s. Mostly, they were spectacularly unsuccessful.

Jesus had a lovely saying: Judge a tree by its fruits. Judging by its fruits - his yoga teachings, 3HO, his interfaith initiatives, Peace Prayer Day, his revival of Sikh spirit, his work for peace in Punjab, his anti-drug work, his contributions to the healing arts, Miri Piri Academy, and his many notable and inspiring students - this was a very lovely tree indeed! Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 03:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

To: Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa

Since you are quoting Jesus I will refer to the entire bible quotation about this subject as stated in Matthew 7:15 through Matthew 7:23:

A Tree and Its Fruit 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I would say Yogi Bhajan’s fruit looks pretty rotten at this point if you consider the corrupt leaders in 3HO that Yogi Bhajan hand picked for the Unto Infinity Board and Sikh Dharma leadership. If you’re not already aware of the current corruption in the inner halls of 3HO then I will include here a quotation from MSS Guru Terath Singh whom you no doubt respect since you have included in this article’s discussion forum below, a long rebuttal he wrote in 1977 against the Time magazine article which was highly critical of Yogi Bhajan. Yes indeed, "Time will tell" if Yogi Bhajan was a false prophet and whether he produced good or bad fruit. Personally I would rather place my bets for salvation on the traditional values and teachings of Sikhism as exemplified in the lives and teachings of the Sikh Gurus, the scriptures of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Dr. Trilochan Singh’s writings rather than the sacrilegious hodgepodge of tantric and shakti cult rubbish which Yogi Bhajan espouses and no traditional Sikh supports. Signed Guru Sant Singh

From: gt khalsa <gtkhalsa_2000@yahoo.com> Subject: [khalsa-council] A Global Settlement To: khalsa-council@mail-list.com Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 6:24 PM Sat Nam. If I were a young man searching for a spiritual path - as I was at one time - and read the emails that have been posted for the world to read over the past year, I would see what appeared to be one group that was a bunch of crooks and the other that was a bunch of very angry, self-righteous, old people. The only thing they would have in common would be their spiritual practices. I would, of course, quickly move on with my search. This is the real danger that the SSS's legacy is facing. If this goes on, I expect that there will be a well funded SDI with very few people. There will be a SDW with many more people, but with inadequate, ongoing funding to do much of anything in the years ahead……… M.S.S. Guru Terath Singh

Re: Response to your comments on Wikipedia YB article‏
From: Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (gurufathasingh@gmail.com)
Sent: Mon 4/12/10 3:01 PM
To: Guru Sant Singh Khalsa (gurusant@hotmail.com)

Bless you ji. You see what you see. I hope you are happy.

See more photos and discussion on facebook at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=108156&id=1214270541&l=5a22781e63

“Amid the legal infighting following Yogi Bhajan’s death, critics are offering another portrait of the Sikh leader.”

Guru Terath Singh is right, of course. That is why people like me are investing in keeping the teachings, the authenticity and the legacy alive. Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 16:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

To Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa:

You seem to be overlooking the obvious 800 pound gorilla in the room. The actions of YB’s students prove the result of Yogi Bhajan's corrupt teachings. In fact, Yogi Bhajan set up the insane power structure of the Unto Infinity Board which controls all of the 3HO finances. Yogi Bhajan installed five corrupt people who are not even Sikhs anymore and who control the Unto Infinity Board for life! Guru Terath Singh has so astutely alluded to Yogi Bhajan's folie and the danger of the truth coming out about Yogi Bhajan’s legacy. Signed Guru Sant Singh

See more photos and discussion on facebook at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=108156&id=1214270541&l=5a22781e63

“Amid the legal infighting following Yogi Bhajan’s death, critics are offering another portrait of the Sikh leader.”

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Guru Fatha Singh Ji,

I am not sure what you mean by this comment "I am Yogi Bhajan's student." If you are saying, look at me I have done allot of good because of what Yogi Bhajan taught me, then my reply would be, think about what more good you could have done and be doing without Yogi Bhajan and his teachings. I know for myself that I am a better person and a better Sikh without the teachings of Yogi Bhajan.

I particularly like this quotation below from a traditional Punjabi Sikh;

"Some people may not like Yogi Bhajan bashing and will say, "Look at what he has done for Sikhi." I personally would have liked to see what Sikhi would have been like without him."

If you have time to read some of my other arguments with Yogi Bhajan and 3HO, I would be interested in your position on these topics. I have included links to the entire articles and their arguments with photos at my website GurmukhYoga.com

3HO Sikhs use this sacriligious advertisement for Wha Guru chews: "What did the magician say to the Wha Guru Chew? Open sesame." "Five flavors and they're all nuts!"

3HO Sikhs are associating yogis, ashrams, tantric sex yoga rituals,and magicians of the occult with the Sikh Gurus and the Golden Temple

Yogi Bhajan's students are intstructed to meditate on Yogi Bhajan's picture everyday which you can see displayed in the 3HO Espanola Gurdwara.

See how Hindu gods and yogis are displayed in 3HO Gurdwaras

See this post which exposes the most shocking relationship Yogi Bhajan had with Jagjit Naamdhari who is considered by his disciples as the 11th Sikh Guru. The Naamdhari Sikhs keep the Siri Guru Granth in a closet while they bow to Jagjit and refer to him as "SatGuru Ji" as you can see in the photos at this link. http://satguruji.blogspot.com/

Guru Fateh
Guru Sant Singh

See more photos and discussion on facebook at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=108156&id=1214270541&l=5a22781e63

“Amid the legal infighting following Yogi Bhajan’s death, critics are offering another portrait of the Sikh leader.”

What ever are you talking about in this post, seems very disconnected and a little bit fanatical. When is the last time you took your meditations/medications?

JJ