Discussions on Dr. Trilochan Singh's book "Sikhism & Tantric

by Gursant Singh , Yuba City California USA, Saturday, April 17, 2010, 05:39 (5339 days ago)
edited by Gursant Singh, Sunday, June 05, 2011, 06:20

See more photos and discussion on facebook at:
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From: sirikhalsa@cybermesa.com
Sent: Thu 12/31/09 11:11 AM
To: sirikhalsa@cybermesa.com

Dear Sadh Sangat, It has come to my attention that a former member of our Sangat, Guru SantSingh, has been emailing a copy of a book which is out of publication andapproximately 30 years old to various Sangat members. We dealt with thisnegative publication many years ago. Evidently, this gentleman iscontinuing to try and discredit us and our beloved teacher. I send thiswith the prayer that you disregard any communication regarding thismatter. And, I further pray that Guru Sant Singh focus on his life ratherthan ours.
Humbly, SS Siri Mukta Singh Khalsa

To: sikhmysticism@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 09:40:31 -0700
From: KirpalS@akalsecurity.com

Guru Sant Singh --- Please use your intuition and your third eye, not your intellect. Siri Singh Sahib (Yogi Bhajan) was a man of God. Do not be swayed by these intellectual Sikhs who value the rituals and ceremonies of Sikhism but not the spirit. Nothing the Siri Singh Sahib taught in any way contridicted the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. The practice of yoga is condemned in Guru Sahib for its ritualistic practice, for leaving God's Name, but not because it is wrong or dangerous. The Guru makes hundreds of references to yoga technology and philosophy as a way to experience God. It says any practice, including yoga is worthless without God's Name. Kundalini Yoga and White Tantric Yoga are based on God's Name. This guy, Trilochan Singh, knows nothing of the spirit, consciousness or grace of the Siri Singh Sahib's teachings. He is looking from a very narrow, intellectual prespective. Don't go there. You have a consciousness and a spirit, experience it.

Kirpal S. Khalsa
Contract Administrator
Akal Security, Inc.
Phone: 505-692-6665
Fax: 505-747-9471
kirpals@akalsecurity.com

I am an American Sikh and ex-student of yogi Bhajan. Trilochan Singhs outdated book, published in 1977, which I found facinating in its obsolescence.
I was naturally very interested in reading it, as I am a "seeker" of the truth as I believe any sikh is.
Admittedly I am somewhat biased, as I am a devoted admrier of the late Yogi Ji, yet even so, I was quite disturbed by Trilochan Singhs having indulged hinself at every opportunity to inject venomous slander towards Yogi Ji.
This book is in my opinion, frivilous in its content, and has painted Trilochan Singh as something less than the scholar he claims to be.
Time has shown the measure of the man who was the Siri Singh Sahib, and his stature as a self-less man of service to humanity in spreading the word of the Sikh Gurus prevails contrary to those petty souls who wish to defame him.
Hari Singh Khalsa

Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:04:37 -0700
Subject: Re: FW: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
From: Prabhu Khalsa
To: santeji@hotmail.com

I'm not sure what your angle is for sending this book, but this book is utter garbage.
Below he has written: "Most of the American Sikhs are absolutely innocent as well as ignorant." This is simply bullshit. Perhaps in the 70's his stereotypes were applicable but they have no value currently.
In fact, without preparation, I would be ready to debate Trilochan at any given time. I could write at lengths (to match his lengthy discussion) giving a point by point rebuttal to his pathetic attempt at scholarship and his more pathetic attempt at explaining the teachings and genuine spirit of Guru Nanak.
His is a tried and tired argument which should be put to bed with the rest of most Sikh 'scholarship.' There are a new generation of scholars who do not have associations with "Sikh" jethas that have historically been after 3ho and the Siri Singh Sahib. You might want to look into some of those.
You might be curious where I gained the knowledge and surety that I have to challenge him to a debate. My answer would be that I read from the Guru frequently. I also read the vars of Bhai Gurdas. Unlike Trilochan, I don't cherry pick the message of the Bhai Gurdas or the Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
Also, unlike Trilochan I won't claim to have only an academic interest in his writings and then go on to take personal shots at him (which he has done in his book about Siri Singh Sahib). I have a very strong bias, and I am upfront about that. I believe in the teachings of Siri Singh Sahib, however I can make my case without any of his teachings. The propaganda coming from him and any other AKJ apologists (or members) is very biased. The AKJ themselves are generally known as an ultra-fanatic group whom other "scholars" have done equivalent research upon and come to similar outlandish conclusions as Trilochan has about Siri Singh Sahib and 3ho.
One thing I learned from this book is that it must be the source for the manifold debates by these fanatics on the internet given that it is, to the letter, the same debate and same handicapped arguments used over and over again.
I will leave with one more quote from his book "no Sikh worth the name acknowledges him to be a really religious and spiritual man"
This is Trilochan's writing of Siri Singh Sahib. I could make the same claim about Trilochan, but then I would be stooping to his level of pathetic "scholarship." Speaking for the entire diverse Sikh community without even one reference.
I doubt Trilochan is available for debate, but if you would like to sit with me, and challenge me on the veracity of any of Trilochan's claims, I would be happy to have that discussion.
In the ardaas we pray for Bibayk (discerning intellect) any one gifted with Bibayk and the spirit of sovereignty given to the Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh could see manipulations on all sides, and choose to keep only the gems offered by fellow members of the community.
Not everything done and said by the Siri Singh Sahib was meant to be a part of the teachings or an example for us to follow. In fact he lead us to the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and told us never to bow to any man. This is the most fundamental challenge to the claims of Trilochan and this pathetic excuse for a book.
God bless you on your journey, may you move forward without a further need to defame Siri Singh Sahib, 3HO or anybody else you feel has wronged you in the past.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!
-Prabhu Singh

From: gurumeet@valornet.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:16:35 -0700

Sat Nam, Guru Sant Singh Ji,
Thank you for sending this. I could not figure out what Siri Mukta was talking about in his e-mail, and I was very curious.

Now I remember reading Dr. Trilochan Singh’s book many years ago, and I have always been fascinated by the debates. I recall that he was of the view that yoga is a waste of time and to experience true understanding we must meditate on Gurbani. On the other side of this debate, of course, to which I am often subjected, are our thousands and thousands of nonSikh Kundalini Yoga teachers, who love doing Kundalini Yoga but they are devout Christians or Jews or Buddhists, or Atheists, etc. and want nothing to do with Sikhism, objecting to the various requirements that they consider Sikhism, such as wearing a head cover when teaching. And yet, because of Yogi Bhajan’s teachings, they all sit gladly intoning Wahe Guru, and often even rise in the early morning to recite JapJi, simply because it is part of the practices of Kundalini Yoga. The Kundalini Yoga we teach certainly has a lot of Sikhism mixed into it.

I always understood Dr. Trilochan Singh’s point of view, and it made sense that he and other Sikhs would object to Yogi Bhajan’s style and audacity to teach Kundalini Yoga with Sikhism mixed into it. In fact it would have been surprising if there wasn’t objection.

The only thing I thought they did not take into account, and I believe one of the primary reasons Yogi Bhajan taught Kundalini Yoga, is the fact that in the West, we simply had no idea of how to sit, how be still, or how to begin to meditate on Gurbani. Hundreds of years of sitting around on chairs had ruined our mental and physical disposition for having any hope or prayer of experiencing true Sikh Mysticism or any kind of mysticism, for that matter. In India people naturally do a lot of yoga, simply sitting in Langar or going to the bathroom in crow pose or folding their hands in prayer pose to say hello. In the West, we would not have been able to appreciate Sikhism without some basic yoga. Of course if you ask Bibiji, she will give you hundreds of references to Kundalini Yoga in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib that validate what we practice and teach in Kundalini Yoga. She strongly contends that Kundalini Yoga is fundamentally integrated with Sikhism. The reason she pulled these references was because of another side of this debate which came up in Khalsa Council. Evidently there are those who were saying that true Sikhs MUST practice Kundalini Yoga. She strongly objected, saying that the Guru’s path is clearly laid out in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and there is nothing to add and nothing to take away. But then she went on to cite the references to Kundalini Yoga contained in the Guru’s verses.

So, we have these three positions:

1. Dr. Trilochan Singh – Sikhism No Yoga
2. Yoga Teachers – Yoga No Sikhism
3. Some in Khalsa Council – Sikhism Requires Yoga;

For me, I do not quite understand why any of us would feel we need to legislate what others do. It is true that, as Dr. Trilochan Singh says, Yogi Bhajan could have come here as Harbhajan Singh and taught only about Sikhism. Of course, there would be no where near the number of people who have been awakened to the Guru’s teachings had he done that. Perhaps he taught Kundalini Yoga because he knew people needed some physical healing before they could possibly sit sill in Gurdwara to listen to Gurbani; perhaps he taught it as a hook because he knew people may find it interesting, whereas many others (like me) were so completely fed up with religion that we would never have come to a class on Sikhism, but we rallied to come to Kundalini Yoga; perhaps he taught Kundalini Yoga because he loved Guru Nanak’s admonishment to the yogis that they come down out of the caves and teach people, help them to heal, and the yogis steadfastly refused, saying the common people could not receive the ancient secret teachings, and so Yogi Bhajan simply felt it was time for a yogi to obey Guru Nanak’s command and give the ancient technology openly to everyone who cared to practice it and experience its benefits. I am sure that you know, of course, Guru Sant, that Yogi Bhajan not only took flak from Sikhs for teaching yoga, but he also took major flak from the yogis for teaching yoga openly to all, even to women, heaven forbid.

While my personal relationship with Yogi Bhajan was always pretty tumultuous, so I am not writing to defend him, because we really did not get along, still, I did appreciate the fact that he said don’t love me, love my teachings. The fact is, I loved the teachings and I am a pretty hard core Kundalini Yogi and have been teaching it to others, as well, for nearly 40 years. As Dr. Trilochan Singh says, it does help people in many ways and I have seen and experienced that first hand. When I look at you, Guru Sant Singh, you appear to be an excellent yogi quite naturally, and I hope I do not offend you by saying so, perhaps some people, such as yourself, are just born with that natural, divine grace. I am not sure why you would decide you are not, but I know for sure that I am a yogi who was not born so, but I have worked hard to achieve becoming a mediocre practitioner, and very thankful, so that I can now sit still in Gurdwara and experience that bliss.

I wish you well, Guru Sant, and consider you always, fully a part of our Sangat.

Love,

Gurumeet Kaur Khalsa
Create Inner Peace
gurumeet@valornet.com
www.createinnerpeace.com
www.peacefulchocolate.com

________________________________________
From: gurumeet@valornet.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:34:48 -0700

Dear Guru Sant Singh Ji,
Sat Nam and blessings. I appreciate also the debate in civility and respect, and I deeply honor your right to practice and teach that which has meaning for you, and the opportunity for this engagement and sharing ideas.

You say
I have only received hate mail which is full of fear and anger towards anyone who would criticize Yogi Bhajan and or his Kundalini and Tantric Yoga.
I would ask you, Guru Sant, if you examine the words of Dr. Trilochan Singh, would find any trace of fear and anger in his words? I absolutely do not condone the responses from those who answer you with their own fear and anger. You are one hundred percent correct to say that fear and anger are masking insecurity and a lack of self confidence. I am asking you because when I read his words I do sense anger and fear from Dr. Trilochan Singh. I was wondering if you experience this at all?

You say
I could never totally accept Yogi Bhajan's form of Sikhism which, lets face it, has many elements of the occult, and idol worship.
When we gather before the Siri Guru Granth Sahib we bow only to God and Guru. Sikhism is Sikhism and it is incorruptible, the Siri Guru Granth Sahib is our only guide. Sikh practices are clearly laid out in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib, and there is no form of these sacred practices that exists, which belongs to any one person, they belong to humanity. Dr. Trilochan Singh has mislabeled the practices of Kundalini Yoga that we teach as Yogi Bhajan’s form of Sikhism. That is a misnomer and not true.

You say
. . . how can any Sikh teach his students to meditate on his photograph as Yogi Bhajan taught with his guru yoga?
The whole point of the Tratakum Meditation is to connect with one’s one inner, divine, awareness, the Guru within. Yogi Bhajan’s photo is not worshipped. It is used in the Tratakum Meditation as an example of neutral consciousness. Whenever this meditation is taught, the emphasis is always on connecting with the Guru within. The yoga of gazing or Tratakum is a technology that focuses pranic energy through the eyes and improves the ability to concentrate. It increases the flow and pranic glow from the eyes of the practitioner.

You say
How can any Sikh allow photos of himself and statues of yogis and Hindu gods to be placed in or near a Gurdwara?
Sikhs are known throughout the world for their beautiful art in many forms, and yet sculpture is forbidden. . .? I do not understand this taboo against certain forms of art, and I have always thought the idea was, perhaps, partially a carry over of Muslim influence? I have read that in the past, and some Sikhs even today, also forbid the art of painting. They say that any form of art is idol worship. None of this makes sense to me. The Creator of all of the creation has given human beings the blessing of creative energy and talent to create beautiful art in the form of music and painting and sculpture and so many other different venues. All of the beauty of creation is divine. Ang Sang Wahe Guru. If you can’t see God in all, you can’t see God at all. I do not see the problem. If Hindus have practices that involve devotions before beautiful sculptures of their deities, what is the problem with that? One of the reasons I was attracted to becoming Sikh is that we honor all others’ ways of worship and the Atheists right to no worship. Once Kirn Kaur told me that she asked Yogi Bhajan what the purpose of a sculpture of a holy being is, and he said the purpose is to anchor prana. It seems to me that all art anchors prana to a certain extent. What is the problem? Once Mukhia Jethadar Amrit Singh told me he had a vision of a sculpture he would like to create and asked me to imagine a life size sculpture of Guru Gobind Singh with his children surrounding him on our front lawn. He then told me that he had shared his dream with Yogi Bhajan and that he loved the idea too. As it happened, my beautiful sister in Albuquerque, Manjit Kaur, had overhead the conversation and she began to most passionately and rather vehemently object. Yogi Bhajan then told Amrit Singh to wait a while. Later I went to Manjit Kaur and asked why she objected, and she tried to explain to me her point of view, and I would say that she was angry at the initiative and fearful of the idea of sculptures of the Gurus. I still do not get the problem. Why does beautiful sculpture make Sikhs angry and fearful? We are Sikhs of the True Guru. We worship Akal Purkh, the One Pervading God, the Shabd Guru, the holy Nam, the most holy Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Beautiful sculpture does not threaten me. I lovingly hope Amrit Singh does not continue to wait.

You say
What true Sikh relies on yogic rings, gems, and astrology for strength?
I am a numerologist. For strength, I rely on my discipline, my connection to the Guru within, singing Gurbani, the Holy Nam. To observe the karma, I may use numerology as a tool to perceive and comprehend it. As Sikhs, we have the great gift and blessing to live in Dharma and thereby render harmless the karma. In my experience with numerology and astrology, they are complex calendars which provide us with apparatus that enable us to see the karma we have created on a larger scale as a humanity, and understand measures to counter destructive trends and effects. My practices as a Sikh are my strength. As a human incarnation in the world, we have to deal with karma and these technologies may be useful in that regard. I do not find any conflict in using them with my Sikh practices.

You say
I spent every day at the Harmandir Sahib with Gursikhs of outstanding reputation, I realized there in the presence of the true Guru that there is only one God and this is the only source of true strength and support. Yoga and all these mantras and tantras which Yogi Bhajan was teaching were nothing and a total waste of time. Sure they give a person a sense of power and health but in the end it is all a false sense of happiness. Nothing but contemplation and devotion on the name of God through Gurbani brings true bliss.
I am so happy for you that after the terrible ordeal you suffered, you found solace and peace at the Harimandir Sahib and with the beautiful Gursikhs who you spent time with. In all that I have read in Sikh history and teachings, the concept of honoring peoples’ practices and traditions of their choosing has been so paramount. Did these Gursikhs with whom you studied not also teach you this concept? I am baffled that you should object so strongly to allowing people who so choose to peacefully practice and teach Kundalini Yoga. I can understand and accept that you found for yourself Kundalini Yoga practices were a waste of time and gave a false sense of happiness. Would you consider accepting that not everyone has your experience? I agree that Nothing but contemplation and devotion on the name of God through Gurbani brings true bliss.

You say
Contemplating and praying for many years about this, I have come to the conclusion, that Yogi Bhajan simply created allot of karma by teaching Kundalini and tantric yoga.
I do not see that karma was created. I honestly believe that by teaching Kundalini Yoga, Yogi Bhajan fulfilled the command of Guru Nanak given to the siddhi yogis at that time. Guru Nanak ordered his own son to lead the siddhi yogis, and Baba Siri Chand then passed the mantle of Raj Yog to Guru Ram Das. I believe Yogi Bhajan was carrying out the order of Guru Nanak to the siddhi yogis, with the blessings of his Guru, the King of the siddhi yogis, Guru Ram Das.

You say
We see it now manifesting with all the troubles within 3HO and Sikh Dharma and the lack of interest in Sikhi.
Everything happening now he told us would happen as we clear and strengthen. Our troubles are always a chance to grow and learn. You will see an awakened and aware and alert and more caring and compassionate Sangat emerge from this experience.

There is great interest and ever growing and evolving education in Sikhi. Have you spent any time on Sikhnet?

You say
One yoga student who wrote a post at Gurmukhyoga.com said it best when he declared that he wasn't at all into Sikhism and observed there are less and less beards and turbans at every summer solstice.
Summer Solstice has always been a 3HO event. Yogi Bhajan originally described 3HO as the nonsecular arm of Sikh Dharma, created for the elevation of the human spirit through education, science, and religion. He always made it clear that people of every religion and no religion were welcome to attend Solstices and Kundalini Yoga classes and all 3HO events. During Solstices, we also offer classes in Sikhi, Gurdwara is held each morning, and the opportunity to take Amrit is offered. The classes in Sikhi and morning Gurdwara are thriving and many take the baptism of Amrit. Thousands do not. Each individual has the right to choose and we honor that right.

You say
Thinking back to the first time I took a Tantric Yoga course with Yogi Bhajan; I would have related much more to talk about God and simple devotional living for the Guru rather than mumbo jumbo about sacred Z energy and stories about the Mahan Tantric, hidden yogic secrets and asanas for seeing auras etc. I am now of the opinion that it is better to sing Gurbani and teach about Sikhi as Trilochan Singh and many other Sikhs like Bhai Sahib Randir Singh teach than to teach any yoga asanas and other such Hindu practices. Those that do not want to listen to Gurbani, then that's OK and they should go elsewhere for yoga.
I am so happy for you that you have found that it is better to sing Gurbani and teach about Sikhi. Part of sharing Sikhi will be to teach people to honor and respect others’ traditions and the right of each individual to choose their own path. We have more than 10,000 teachers of Kundalini Yoga in 173 of 193 countries throughout the world. The vast majority of these teachers are not Sikhs. Still, they meditate on Wahe Guru, on Sat Nam, on the Mul Manta of JapJi and teach their students to do so. A few will want to learn more about the Shabd Guru and some will find their way to the Guru’s Gate. Not all, but a few will become Sikhs, and fewer still will become baptized Sikhs. For all of the people in the world who do not chose to become Sikhs, I honor their right to choose their own practices. For all of those who practice Kundalini Yoga and experience its benefits, some may indeed choose to go elsewhere for yoga, but many will not go elsewhere for yoga, and that is their right.

You say
We cannot be mixing yoga and Sikhism. I believe we are now seeing the results of Yogi Bhajan's synthetic Sikhism.
Kundalini Yoga is not Sikhism. It is incorrect to call Kundalini Yoga synthetic Sikhism. Kundalini Yoga is nonsecular. People of all religions and no religions are welcome to practice the technology. It is true that there are meditations taught which draw upon the Sikh tradition, and there are meditations with mantras from the Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim traditions, and other traditions, as well. Kundalini Yoga is nonsecular.

I am Sikh and I am a yogi and I mix them well.

You say (quoting from Dr. Trilochan Singh)
“Yogi Bhajan is using the sacred Sikh mantras and sacred name of Guru Ram Das as a mantle for his Tantric Yoga which will inevitably lead to mental and physical debauchery of those who take his brand of Sikhism contaminated by crazy sex-energizing asanas seriously. Every Sikh having even rudimentary knowledge of Sikhism and even every non-Sikh scholar of Sikhism, would agree with me that Sikhs and Sikhism in America will go down the drain if these things continue to be practiced secretly or openly in the name of Guru Ram Das, and with sacred Sikh mantras as instruments of this type of Tantric Yoga which is extremely repulsive to Sikhism.”
“The Tantric techniques he (Yogi Bhajan) is teaching and practicing lead a person to self-destruction as soon as he loses the balance between life of the Spirit and life of the Flesh and Sex.”
White Tantric Yoga utilizes the masculine and feminine principles to channel creative energy to higher consciousness and clear the subconscious mind. It is not about sex, that is red tantra. You know this. White Tantra as well as Kundalini Yoga provide the awareness to channel creative (sexual) energy consciously. We call it the yoga of householders. We do not teach celibacy. We do teach all men to view every woman as a mother, sister, or daughter, except his one beloved, which is a teaching adopted from Sikhi. This does not lead a person to self destruction or mental and physical debauchery. In fact, it leads to balanced happy living. As a Sikh, I do not find it repulsive in any way. These teachings are helping millions of people of many different religions to experience healthy, happy, holy lives. The teaching are not going down the drain. The teachings of Kundalini Yoga are growing and glowing. Yogi Bhajan predicted that by the year 2013 between 40 and 60 percent of the population will be practicing yoga of some form. Kundalini Yoga is only one form but it will remain a prominent offering to people.

Guru Sant, I honor your right to choose not to practice Kundalini Yoga. I hope you will consider accepting the choice of those who do choose to practice it, without objection. And please keep teaching people about Sikhi.

With love and blessings,

Gurumeet Kaur Khalsa
Create Inner Peace
gurumeet@valornet.com
www.createinnerpeace.com
www.peacefulchocolate.com
________________________________________
From: rubykhalsa@hotmail.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:50:17 -0500

Gur Sant ji,

I am a Punjabi woman who has heard Yogi Bhajan in person and have read his books.
I am sorry that you feel the need to send out these negative emails.
Honestly, I have shared the lectures and books to my own child.
I wish the children of Punjab could have access to the lectures and books. Perhaps it would help them embrace their religion more!!!

Harjinder Ruby Kaur


To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: FW: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
From: Gurujot@sikhnet.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:40:18 -0700

it appears that the esteemed Dr. has written a gossip piece. i see nothing academic about this excerpt.
This debate about there should be no yoga in Sikhism will probably never end. the reason for that is that people don't weigh different options and then objectively choose the right one, they choose what they think and then find information to back that up. once introduced to new information they will neglect the important points and argue over the gray areas. The Siri Guru Granth Sahib makes many esoteric references to yoga but it is not true that it says definitively "don't do yoga". by the same token i can misquote and misinterpret the Guru to say "don't wear bana" and "don't give to charities". it seems most of the references are targeted at the motivations of doing yoga for accult powers and not the yoga itself. whereas it esteems the practice of Raj Yoga which is technically the line Kundalini comes from. the other criticism of yoga we get from Guru Nanak is that the yogis has this great technology for releaving the pains of humanity but they are not sharing it, rather they remain hiding in caves. that's obviously not the case with the typical 3HO married, homeowner, yoga practitioner/teacher, working, contributing member of society.

My authority on Sikhism is the Siri Guru Granth Sahib, and what the 10 Guru's said and did. i have yet to find any compelling and intelligent information that would negate the practice of KY. it's just empassioned cultural dogma.

modern day intellectuals have messed everything up. they justify taking out Raag Mala from the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. take out 2 pauris from Choupai Sahib, take out 34 pauris from Anand Sahib. take away bana the 5 k's from the Sikh identity saying that they were just situational necesities of the Guru's times, but we are now modern Sikhs. take away the extreme faith and mystery of the story of Baba Deep and say he just had a gash in his neck. take away the entire Dasam Granth including Jaap Sahib and 2 other of the 5 Nitnem Banis. take away the Ardas because the first part is from Dasam Granth. its ridiculous, but they make their intellectual arguments that sound good to anyone who wants to follow that agenda. whereas anyone with knowledge of Sanaatan Sikhism will exhonerate the Dasam Granth, and Kundalini Yoga.

we are still in an anti-Hindu Gurdwara reform movement period. you can't trust everyone who claims to know the "true Sikhi"

aside from all of that, i think you know that most people in this community will find this argument offensive especially coming from someone inside of the community. i feel like you are barking up the wrong tree. people are here because they've felt the positive effects of KY and not for any dogma. the SSS has passed away and people are carrying on with the lifestyle as they used to. that's because it works.

Gurujot Singh

From: gurudarbar@gmail.com
Subject: Re: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:43:18 -0800
To: santeji@hotmail.com

Dear Guru Sant Singh,

Although I haven't read the entire article which you posted, I have to ask that you also read and study the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and draw your own deeper conclusion than what Dr. Trilochan Singh has expressed. The Siri Guru Granth is our Guru and should resolve any doubts and questions which we have. We need to look no further than the Shabd Guru for our source of this truth which you mention.

Sat Nam,

Guru Darbar Singh

________________________________________
From: dryogi108@gmail.com
Subject: Re: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" a free e-book
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 08:43:29 -0800
To: santeji@hotmail.com

Thanks Sant Singh. I started reading it & found it facinating as well as familier. I saw this in the 80s sometime.
I am back in town, India was intense.
HSS

________________________________________
From: satjug108@hotmail.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" a free e-book
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:40:30 +0800

satnam
if guru wills, we will meet in near future. the book dr. trilochan singh wrote have many issues that were not properly written from historical point of view. it is clearly seen from this book that dr.trilochan have no deep knowledge of the udasi tradition.

many references are there in many historical books of the past, like the gurpratap suraj granth for an example that clearly states that baba sri chand was a yogi and practised yoga. besides this, there are uncountable books written by nirmala sikhs and udasi sikhs, that practised yoga and also kundalini yoga. most of these book, have never been printed and are available in the ashrams. i am currently working on a commentary book written by a nirmala sikh on the patanjali yoga sutras. there is a long list of books on yoga by nirmala and udasi sikhs and also a long list of nirmala and udasi sikhs that practice yoga. you will be amazed to know that in the court of guru gobind singh, there were gurmukh yogis, who practised yoga...full historical evidences are there.

the thing is that the main stream sikhs never take these traditions as part and parcel of the panth, altough these traditions are keeping the true spirit of sikh dharma. i don't blame dr.trilochan on what he have written as he have absolutely no knowledge of the puratan sampardas of the sikhs.

much more can be written, and much more is there....guru willing if we meet.

many blessings
amandeep singh

________________________________________
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:11:47 -0800
From: harikirn@sbcglobal.net
Subject: e-book review
To: santeji@hotmail.com
My e-book review summarized

" One Indian Sikh's points of view versus Aquarian Age open minded American Sikhs' points of view."

We all have our view points.

________________________________________
From: haring.gurdarshan@msn.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:44:38 -0700

Dear Guru Sant Singh,
I'd like to know where you are coming from, and what your reasons are for distributing this.
It is one man's "perspective" from decades ago, and from whatever limited (or possibly) biased point of view that he may have been coming from at that moment in time. And lets face it - it is extremely difficult for any ego-mind to view whatever is going on around it without the filters of it's own limited points of view.
I'm not, nor have I ever been into deifying the Siri Singh Sahib. But he himself said that everything he had ever done or taught, was to lead us to the feet of the Guru. Truth be told - I came to Yogi Bhajan simply because I wanted to study yoga, not Sikhism. Most every other person I have met in this Dharma came through a yoga class of one sort or another. I had absolutely no interest in Sikh Dharma or the Sikh Gurus, nor had I ever heard of them. Nor would I have ever heard of them, were it not for Yogi Bhajan.
The chakras are a reality, to this human experience. Energy gets stuck in the lower chakras. Our beliefs and perspective get stuck there along with it. Tantric Yoga and Kundalini Yoga are just two (very effective) means by which we can elevate that energy. I agree - that ultimately - (as the very highest levels of consciousness are experienced, and ego-mind is transcended) the yogic practices and even meditation, may be discarded, for they are no longer something one "does" but That, which one Is. The teachings of the Sikh Gurus encourage us ever inward to our True Self - which is That which we share in Oneness. Yet, I don't know how many times I have had that very experience of Oneness, connectedness, directly from practicing Tantric yoga, and the physical, mental and emotional benefits of yoga can be helpful as long as we are still in this human form. They are all steps on the path. Everything we encounter is a step on the path. When by Grace, we experience the higher levels of the heart chakra, we know that it is all Good and it is all God.


humbly yours,
Haring Singh Khalsa

________________________________________
From: hjiwan@ninetreasures.com
To: gssk29@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" new website
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:12:54 -0700

Why would I pursue anything that discredits my teacher. He gave me more than I ever expected or deserved, for me he’s more than real and I can’t collaborate with those who think otherwise!

________________________________________
From: ak@sikhdharma.org
To: gurusant@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:26:33 -0700

I find this email quite insulting. It is full of hate and angera and is very negative and I had to stop reading it because it is so untruthful. May God guide you to the light.
My prayers are with you.

Amrit Kaur
Dasvandh Assistant
Sikh Dharma International
505-629-4718
www.dasvandh.org
www.sikhdharma.org

To: gurusant@hotmail.com
Subject: Yogi Harbhajan Singh Khalsa
From: Jathedar108@verizon.net
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:45:06 +0530

Dear Gurumukh Yoga Forum,
I studied with Yogi Bhajan (Siri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa for 35 years. I first met him in 1970. I knew nothing of Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh or Sikhism. I was 20 and a veteran of the US Air Force.
I am now 60 and have two grown daughters, married to two wonderful son-in-laws (all practicing Amritdhari Sikhs). My wife and I have four grandchildren.
I took Amrit Pahul in 1974 by Bhai Hokum Singh, Gurucharan Singh Tohra and 3 other Singhs.
I don't feel yogi Bhajan professed to teach Sikhi or Sikhism. He had his experiences and we had our ours. He taught Kundalini Yoga, vegetarian diet, quality of life and was the Mahan Tantra of White Tantric Yoga.
He witnessed the miracle of Guru Ram Das as western students adopted the dharma of "Guru Nanak Dev Ji" and let their hair grow unshorn, donned turbans (Dastars) and learned Gurumukhi and lived the householder life of the 10 Guru's of the Punjab. He witnessed it as well. He never converted anyone to Sikhi. He taught Kundalini Yoga and how to be healthy, happy, and holy.
He was our teacher, not our Guru. He led by example not by dogma and edict.
His life was guided by the Shabd Guru.
We are living this life by Guru's Grace and we keep up as God and Guru guide our affairs.

Cherdi Kala,

S.S. Sat Hanuman Singh Khalsa

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:58:44 -0800
From: satkartar@cox.net
To: gurusant@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: FW: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga” The book some would have you disregard!!

Whoever sent this please take me off your list and don't send me any more
offensive, condescending emails.

The stance of the person who wrote this is that Americans who studied with Yogi Bhajan for 35+
are stupid mindless idiots who need someone to tell them the real Sikhism????????

Excuse me, but this is very offensive to me, and it isn't your right to shove your slander and
point of view into my inbox.

My life has been blessed by the Shabd Guru. I have sung Gurbani Kirtan for 3 decades + and my life has been healed
by it in ways you cannot even begin to imagine.

That is all you need to know. I don't need to know ANYTHING from someone who slanders others, as you have, and I don't
need people who are jealous of what he did, to send me emails about the "real " Sikhism.

Please do not contact me again.

Sat Kartar Kaur Khalsa

Subject: AW: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:52:06 -0700
From: SatHari.Khalsa@goldentemple.com
To: gurusant@hotmail.com

Hi Guru Sant Singh
Sat Nam
Can you please introduce yourself, why and for what purpose you send me this pamphlet.
My master told me: Don't love the teacher - love the teachings. Couldn't find any teachings in that Trilochan Singh stuff."
What you sending it me for. Isn't there enough confusion in the world?
Why you go on adding more?
Will you please out that for me
sat nam
shs

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Gurumeet Kaur Ji,

Thank you very much for your mail. I really appreciate your honesty as well as civil and well thought out and reasoned letter. Your letter has been only one of three civil responses I have received since sending out the invitation to read "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" to members of the Espanola Sangat. I have only received hate mail which is full of fear and anger towards anyone who would criticize Yogi Bhajan and or his Kundalini and Tantric Yoga. I have to ask these people, if they are so confident in the teachings of Yogi Bhajan, then why not discuss the issue with reasonable critics, as we are doing now, especially someone who is a Gursikh and a member of the Sad Sangat?

Thank you again for your understanding and honesty. Since you have been honest with me and shown your sincerity I want to try and relate to you my own experience with Sikhism and Yogi Bhajan. As you know, I spent about thirty years around Yogi Bhajan and practiced Kundalini and Tantric Yoga. Before 1977 I was a a devout Christian. I guess I always carried with me a belief in one God, no idols or occult stuff, which very much attracted me to Sikhism. I could never totally accept Yogi Bhajan's form of Sikhism which, lets face it, has many elements of the occult, and idol worship. You can put new age labels on the stuff but how can any Sikh teach his students to meditate on his photograph as Yogi Bhajan taught with his guru yoga? How can any Sikh allow photos of himself and statues of yogis and Hindu gods to be placed in or near a Gurdwara? What true Sikh relies on yogic rings, gems, and astrology for strength?

The real epiphany came for me in India when I was arrested and spent several weeks in the stinking pit of the Amritsar central jail. After I was released on bail, I spent every day at the Harmandir Sahib with Gursikhs of outstanding reputation, I realized there in the presence of the true Guru that there is only one God and this is the only source of true strength and support. Yoga and all these mantras and tantras which Yogi Bhajan was teaching were nothing and a total waste of time. Sure they give a person a sense of power and health but in the end it is all a false sense of happiness. Nothing but contemplation and devotion on the name of God through Gurbani brings true bliss.

While in India, I also spent one year at a Hindu Ashram near Rishikesh ,teaching meditation. I saw many foreigners who, like you have observed with Kundalini yoga students, would have never entered the yoga program if the emphasis was on religion. When I would ask people how many considered themselves religious, none raised their hands. Yogi Bhajan made a choice to teach Kundalini and Tantric yoga to westerners because, as you have also indicated, he possibly thought they would only listen to these attractive yoga asanas and mantras for health wealth and happiness etc.

You might ask, is it then better for someone to at least do some yoga rather than no spiritual practice?

Contemplating and praying for many years about this, I have come to the conclusion, that Yogi Bhajan simply created allot of karma by teaching Kundalini and tantric yoga. We see it now manifesting with all the troubles within 3-HO and Sikh Dharma and the lack of interest in Sikhi. One yoga student who wrote a post at Gurmukhyoga.com said it best when he declared that he wasn't at all into Sikhism and observed there are less and less beards and turbans at every summer solstice.

Is this what Guru Gobind Singh envisioned for the Khalsa? I think not.

Thinking back to the first time I took a Tantric Yoga course with Yogi Bhajan; I would have related much more to talk about God and simple devotional living for the Guru rather than mumbo jumbo about sacred Z energy and stories about the Mahan Tantric, hidden yogic secrets and asanas for seeing auras etc. I am now of the opinion that it is better to sing Gurbani and teach about Sikhi as Trilochan Singh and many other Sikhs like Bhai Sahib Randir Singh teach than to teach any yoga asanas and other such Hindu practices. Those that do not want to listen to Gurbani, then that's OK and they should go elsewhere for yoga.

We cannot be mixing yoga and Sikhism. I believe we are now seeing the results of Yogi Bhajan's synthetic Sikhism. Trilochan Singh says it best with this statement:


“Yogi Bhajan is using the sacred Sikh mantras and sacred name of Guru Ram Das as a mantle for his Tantric Yoga which will inevitably lead to mental and physical debauchery of those who take his brand of Sikhism contaminated by crazy sex-energizing asanas seriously. Every Sikh having even rudimentary knowledge of Sikhism and even every non-Sikh scholar of Sikhism, would agree with me that Sikhs and Sikhism in America will go down the drain if these things continue to be practiced secretly or openly in the name of Guru Ram Das, and with sacred Sikh mantras as instruments of this type of Tantric Yoga which is extremely repulsive to Sikhism.”

“The Tantric techniques he (Yogi Bhajan) is teaching and practicing lead a person to self-destruction as soon as he loses the balance between life of the Spirit and life of the Flesh and Sex.”
Dr. Trilochan Singh

Thank you again for writing with your honest thoughts and opinions and I hope you might consider posting your thoughts on the forum at GurmukhYoga.com _http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php I think your perspective is very valuable for me as well as other Sikhs and students of Yogi Bhajan.

All the best to you and may Guru always be with you.

Wahe Guru Ji
Guru Fateh
Guru Sant Singh

From: khalsans@hotmail.com
To: gssk29@hotmail.com
Subject: Tantric Yoga
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:59:11 -0700

Well, this is puzzling to me.

A lot of people in the community accepted you even after numerous shenanigans that were not flattering to our community.
Now, it seems that you are burning those bridges, and at a time when the community is uniting under threat. The wagons are circled.
Bad timing! Now this is just one more threat, and your email will not be met with open mindedness, but with a negative mind on full alert.

As far as all this business about the Mahan Tantric is concerned, I've known for years that a Tibetan (with a Chinese name, no less) would not share tantric secrets with some arrogant Punjabi. Tibetans just don't do that with their closely guarded secrets. They tend to be more clannish.

None the less, I love doing tantric and receive great benefits from it.
I don't really care where a technique comes from, as long as it works. If I worried about yogic lineage, I'd be in big trouble, because we have none. We can trace 'Long Ek Ong Kar' to Baba Virsa Singh; there is little else that we know for sure. As far as being thousands of years old, perhaps there are kriyas that have their roots in the deep past, but they've been retrofitted with new mantras that come from SGGS. Well, if it works, I really don't care - that makes it all the more integrated and convenient for me.

Even if all the yogic teachings are 100% the product of SSS, then I'd have to hail him as a creative genius.
I know of no one who comes close. 'Yoga master' Gurucharan Singh? Give me a break.

And you've done tantric more than once. I guess I don't really understand why you did, if you found it a waste of time and now want to discredit it. So I'm not really sure where you are going with all of this. But I'm pretty sure that few here are going with you, at this point in time.

________________________________________
From: gurumeet@valornet.com
To: santeji@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:12:41 -0700
Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh

Dear Guru Sant Singh Ji,
Congratulations on your marriage and I am so happy that you have the experience of the open hearts and love of our Indian Sikh family. By Guru’s grace, one day the pale face Sikhs may be blessed with this understanding. My sister was mad at me for years because I had become Sikh, and in her view, I had joined a cult. Finally we got things a little sorted out and she accepts me now, but still thinks I am in a cult. A few years ago, when I went to visit her at her home in Napa, she introduced me to a beautiful Indian Sikh family living two doors down from her, who were obviously her good friends. Later I asked how she had become such good friends with this Sikh family, while she believes I am in a cult. She said, oh, they are nothing like you people in 3HO. They are happy and giving and the most loving people.

Our behavior symptoms that many of us display, include being uppity and territorial and defensive and even attacking, as you have experienced. The behavior issues are not deep set, they are really more like a shellac that will wear away. The symptoms do not come from Yogi Bhajan because he did not have them at all. He was welcoming and interactive with everyone without discrimination of any kind. I think the symptoms are more from being untrained in America in basic manners, and in some cases, perhaps, people’s Christian background? Underneath we are all just people. Thankfully, for the most part, the shellac does not pass on to our children, especially those raised in India. Our second generation sees the world with eyes much more clearly than our first generation and our third generation, who are just now growing up, they are truly global children. These young ones are pretty bright.

Since my sister, as well as my daughter (also now adamantly not a Sikh, though I raised her as a Sikh), have both helped me open my eyes to these symptoms in my behavior, it has enabled me to realize that there is no need to be defensive and attack people personally to have a conversation about values and issues and ideas. These symptoms arise in people everywhere who may feel insecure within themselves, for any reason, and see others as a threat, when no threat exists. That is the only reason people attack the lifestyle and practices of others who are doing them no harm.

I hope, Guru Sant Singh, that you will one day consider the words of Dr. Trilochan Singh in this light. His attacks on us and on Yogi Bhajan’s teachings about yoga are not consistent with Sikh tenants. As Sikhs, we embrace all people, just as we were taught by the True Guru. The Hari Mandir Sahib has its doors open in the four directions to ensure this forever more. The Siddhi Yogis of Baba Siri Chand still have a home on the Parkarma, do they not? I am sure you know the history of the Siddhi Yogis taking care of the Sikh Gurdwaras during times that the Sikhs themselves were being slaughtered by the Mugals and forced away from their homes. Still, throughout all of that 500 year period, the Siddhi Yogis refused to live as householders in obedience to Guru Nanak’s command. Only now some yogis have said we love to live as householders and embrace all of the teachings of the True Guru. There is no reason for you or Dr. Trilochan Singh to fear us and attack us. We are simple Sikhs, just like you, who happen to practice yoga. Thankfully, as you well know Guru Sant Ji, most of the world’s 20 million Sikhs also embrace the pale face Sikhs, some of whom practice yoga. They do not see us as a threat. I hope, as you immerse yourself in this worldwide community, that you, too, will know we are all One Sangat.

I am grateful for your friendship and your open mind and humbled by your kind offer to help us in any way. I will gladly keep you apprised of our evolving process of transformation.

Many blessings to you and your wife, and I hope to meet her soon.

Sat Nam

Gurumeet Kaur Khalsa
Create Inner Peace
gurumeet@valornet.com
www.createinnerpeace.com
www.peacefulchocolate.com
________________________________________
From: Guru Sant Singh Khalsa [mailto:santeji@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:36 AM
To: gurumeet@valornet.com
Subject: RE: "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Gurumeet Kaur Ji,

Thank you again for your communication and openness with your thoughts and experiences about Yogi Bhajan and 3-HO. At this point your the only person in 3-HO communicating with me. I have included below a reply from the administrator of the new 3-HO "discussion forum" which they billed as an "open forum". I would hardly call it "an open forum" after receiving their letter. I think their letter only shows the ongoing cult atmosphere in 3-HO.

After e-mailing about 2,000 people in 3-HO, I have concluded the vast majority do not want to hear what I have to say or listen with an open mind to my 30 years of experiences with Yogi Bhajan, its Guru's will and I accept this.

I am now married to a traditional Punjabi Sikh lady. She and her family and the vast majority of the 20 million Indian Sikhs accept and welcome me and my ideas about Sikhi. In fact, I have never felt more love and support as I now feel in this Punjabi family and Punjabi Sikh community. Unfortunately I cannot say this about Yogi Bhajan and 3-HO. I don't want to go on about the past or be negative, I choose to concentrate more on the future and the light of the Guru. I am only sharing with you my experiences since you have been open and honest with me in sharing your own experiences.

Again, I appreciate your open mindedness and interest in discussing these issues with me. I hope we can keep in communication. Please let me know about any developments in 3-HO or if I can be helpful in anyway. Thank you

Guru Fateh
Guru Sant Singh
________________________________________

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:53:34 -0700
Subject: Espanolal Ashram Community Discussion Forum
From: espanolaning@gmail.com
To: gssk29@hotmail.com

I received this forwarded email from Swaran Kaur, Secretary of the Espanola Ashram regarding our new Ning site.

"We are not interested in being a sounding board for slander against Yogi Bhajan. If you would like an audience who would appreciate your insidious comments go to Rick Ross' site. There you will find a slew of people interested in your negative dialogue. http://www.rickross.com/"

Site Administrator
Espanola Ashram Ning Site

---- Forwarded by Swaran Kaur/Sikh Dharma on 01/12/2010 10:08 AM -----
Guru Sant Singh Khalsa <gssk29@hotmail.com> 01/12/2010 09:41 AM
To <swarank@sikhdharma.org>

cc
Subject RE: Espanola Ashram Community Website

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Swaran Kaur Ji,

Will you allow reasonable and civil criticism of Yogi Bhajan and his teachings in the new community discussion forum? For Example: I have a real problem as a Gursikh allowing photos and paintings of Yogi Bhajan to be displayed in the Gurdwara. Also I think it is un-Sikhlike to have statues of Hindu gods and yogis placed near the Gurdwara which Yogi Bhajan promoted. Will my posts just be deleted or will I be able to site references like Dr. Trilochan Singh's book "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga"?

Guru Fateh
Guru Sant Singh

________________________________________
From: gurudarbar@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:57:07 -0800
Subject: Re: “Sikhism and Tantric Yoga”
To: santeji@hotmail.com

The Siri Guru Granth is our Guru and should resolve any doubts and questions which we have. We need to look no further than the Shabd Guru for our source of this truth which you mention.

"Read and study the teachings of the True Guru and no longer will you have to rely on the cleverness of the mind for survival."

Sat Nam,

Guru Darbar Singh

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Guru Sant Singh Khalsa <santeji@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh!

Dear Guru Darbar Singh Ji,

Thank you very much for your mail. Your letter has been the only civil and reasonable response received since sending out the invitation to read "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" to members of the Espanola Sangat. I have only received mail which is full of fear and hate for anyone who would criticize Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini and Tantric Yoga. I have to ask these people, if they are so confident in the teachings of Yogi Bhajan, then why not discuss the issue with reasonable critics, especially someone who is a Gursikh and a member of the Sad Sangat?

In response to your statement:

"The Siri Guru Granth is our Guru and should resolve any doubts and questions which we have. We need to look no further than the Shabd Guru for our source of this truth which you mention."

I couldn't agree with you more, as a Sikh the Shabd Guru is our only source of truth. Tantric and Kundalini Yoga have no place in Sikhism and many of Yogi Bhajan's teachings are un-Sikh like. How can any Sikh teach to meditate on his photograph as Yogi Bhajan taught with his guru yoga? How can any Sikh allow photos of himself and statues of yogis to be placed in or outside a Gurdwara? I have not arrived at these criticisms easily. I spent thirty years with Yogi Bhajan and after the two years I spent in India at the Harmandir Sahib with Gursikhs of outstanding reputation, I realized how many of the ideas Trilochan Singh puts forth are true.

I hope you will read "Sikhism and Tantric Yoga" and then post your thoughts on the forum at GurmukhYoga.com _http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php I think your perspective is very valuable for me as well as other Sikhs and students of Yogi Bhajan.

All the best and God bless you
Guru Sant Singh

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:15:52 +0900
Subject: Re: ³Sikhism and Tantric Yoga²
From: goldenjp@kcn.ne.jp
To: gssk29@hotmail.com

Dear Guru Sant,
I find that kind of writing totally boring and useless and so slanderous of techniques which I have felt very useful in my own life. Trilochan seems like just another Indian with a huge ego who was jealous of Yogiji’s success in the west, someone who intellectually could debate something but never had any practical experience with either the “yoga” they condemn or with the “true spirituality” which they claim as the alternative. I never felt uplifted by any of the people who slandered Yogiji. It just seems like a waste of time. What are you doing?
Best Wishes
Sada Anand Singh

From: khalsans@hotmail.com
To: gssk29@hotmail.com
Subject: Tantric Yoga
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:59:11 -0700

Well, this is puzzling to me.

A lot of people in the community accepted you even after numerous shenanigans that were not flattering to our community.
Now, it seems that you are burning those bridges, and at a time when the community is uniting under threat. The wagons are circled.
Bad timing! Now this is just one more threat, and your email will not be met with open mindedness, but with a negative mind on full alert.

As far as all this business about the Mahan Tantric is concerned, I've known for years that a Tibetan (with a Chinese name, no less) would not share tantric secrets with some arrogant Punjabi. Tibetans just don't do that with their closely guarded secrets. They tend to be more clannish.

None the less, I love doing tantric and receive great benefits from it.
I don't really care where a technique comes from, as long as it works. If I worried about yogic lineage, I'd be in big trouble, because we have none. We can trace 'Long Ek Ong Kar' to Baba Virsa Singh; there is little else that we know for sure. As far as being thousands of years old, perhaps there are kriyas that have their roots in the deep past, but they've been retrofitted with new mantras that come from SGGS. Well, if it works, I really don't care - that makes it all the more integrated and convenient for me.

Even if all the yogic teachings are 100% the product of SSS, then I'd have to hail him as a creative genius.
I know of no one who comes close. 'Yoga master' Gurucharan Singh? Give me a break.

And you've done tantric more than once. I guess I don't really understand why you did, if you found it a waste of time and now want to discredit it. So I'm not really sure where you are going with all of this. But I'm pretty sure that few here are going with you, at this point in time.